Curse

Mac Sidewinder · Dec 16, 2007, 07:47 AM // 07:47

This sounds alot like Dark Age of Camelot with its persistant world PvP/RvR. You could have hunreds of people defending and attacking on a map larger than the entire 3 campaigns combined. You might have 10 or 20 different smaller battles going on here and there at all times and you never knew who you was going to meet next. It was pretty cool.

netniwk · Dec 16, 2007, 08:08 AM // 08:08

Hope they dont add too much PvE factors in the massive PvP arena.

The Legg · Dec 16, 2007, 08:18 AM // 08:18

Again the developers talk about still having the high end PVP available but only mention GvG in this context. What about Heros Ascent I wounder? Many people including myself have worked hard on that form on PVP over the years and would hate to see it finish in GW2.

-Loki- · Dec 16, 2007, 09:06 AM // 09:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinraith

No more skill > time? Check.

Actually, that's not true where it counts - PvP. 'esport' PvP (ie GvG style) is UAX from the start. So, in the area where skill > time spent matters, GW2 will be truer than GW1.

Fril Estelin · Dec 16, 2007, 09:07 AM // 09:07

I fond the caption of the first picture quite interesting...

Guild Wars 2 comes earlier than many fans suspected -- allegedly canceling some campaigns which were in the works for Guild Wars 1.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinraith

One more thing that distinguished GW from other online games out the window.

No more instancing? Check.

You misunderstood what they said, GW2 will clearly have instances but these instances will be "connected" (e.g., if in a previous instance players destroyed a building, you won't see it until it's rebuilt -> that's a guess from me as I had not read details anywhere).

Quote:

No more skill > time? Check.

No way they're going to change that, in the sense changing it more than they did with titles.

[quote]No more AI party management (and no, one companion doesn't count)? Check./quote]

I think you're reading too much into it, I don't think they'll move away from H/H because it's one thing that made the game successful.

Quote:

Next they'll tell us that the skill system is being changed so that you can equip as many as you want at a time and the transformation will be complete. It's like they're running down a list of ways to make GW2 more like every MMO on the market and ticking things off one by one.

I don't believe it's in their spirit and in the challenges they've set up for themselves and their company. IMHO GW1 players are and will be scared to "loose" "their" game and will speculate with such comments, but I'm convinced that when GW2 will be in beta, they'll stop being worried. I trust these geniuses that have changed the genre (look at Archlord and RF Online becoming free, see interview in MMO Zine 2).

Exoudeous · Dec 16, 2007, 09:07 AM // 09:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinraith

One more thing that distinguished GW from other online games out the window.

No more instancing? Check.
No more low level cap? Check.
No more skill > time? Check.
No more AI party management (and no, one companion doesn't count)? Check.

Next they'll tell us that the skill system is being changed so that you can equip as many as you want at a time and the transformation will be complete. It's like they're running down a list of ways to make GW2 more like every MMO on the market and ticking things off one by one.

theres still instancing, any area that gives rares or has cap locations will be instanced. This was all said in the first pc gamer article about gw2

man you are making so many assumptions without knowing much. typical forum poster.

NeHoMaR · Dec 16, 2007, 10:09 AM // 10:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

I fond the caption of the first picture quite interesting...

Guild Wars 2 comes earlier than many fans suspected -- allegedly canceling some campaigns which were in the works for Guild Wars 1.

I know now where the BMP weapons come from!

--- the end weapons of Utopia!!!

I still prefer new GW1 campaigns/expansions versus GW2.

Fril Estelin · Dec 16, 2007, 10:29 AM // 10:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeHoMaR[B

I still prefer new GW1 campaigns/expansions versus GW2.[/B]

Why would you say that? We barely know what GW2 will look like, despite all the speculation (a lot of GWGers seem to be Jeff O'Brian or Jeff Strain or their electronic brains...). I think all GW player should take what is said here as speculation, because those who know what they're talking about (there are ) are just a few. And all GW2 articles have shown that the secrets behind GW2 are well kept. Now we just need to be patient (not as long as expected according to the caption of the first picture!).

Symeon · Dec 16, 2007, 10:43 AM // 10:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinraith

No more instancing? Check.

ANet has said GW2 will include both persistent and instanced areas (e.g. dungeons).

Quote:

No more low level cap? Check.

There might not even be a level cap, and low level characters will be boosted by high level teammates. No more level mattering? Check.

Quote:

No more skill > time? Check.

See PvP.

Quote:

No more AI party management (and no, one companion doesn't count)? Check.

This is genuinely a good thing. Who wants to see GW2, with persistent areas, full of one-human-seven-AI teams like most of GW is right now? Not me. I'd like to see ANet encourage the use of guilds and friends to form teams a lot more.

Quote:

Next they'll tell us that the skill system is being changed so that you can equip as many as you want at a time and the transformation will be complete. It's like they're running down a list of ways to make GW2 more like every MMO on the market and ticking things off one by one.

It's like you want GW2 to be exactly the same as GW, except cosmetically. Yes, I just exaggerated, just as your fears are exaggerating themselves.

Longasc · Dec 16, 2007, 10:50 AM // 10:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinraith

One more thing that distinguished GW from other online games out the window.

No more instancing? Check.
No more low level cap? Check.
No more skill > time? Check.
No more AI party management (and no, one companion doesn't count)? Check.

Next they'll tell us that the skill system is being changed so that you can equip as many as you want at a time and the transformation will be complete. It's like they're running down a list of ways to make GW2 more like every MMO on the market and ticking things off one by one.

Yup, GW:EN, titles, PvE skills and so on made this game more and more

TIME PLAYED >>> SKILL

The difficulty of the game was lowered in normal mode to really pitiful levels.
It becomes more an more an "achiever" kind of game, like the standard MMO. And all of our achievements are mostly based on grind - to get the max rank KOABD, you must do at least 3 or 4 of the so-called "activity" titles, which are pure repetitive grind.

GW becomes more and more repetitive, and rewards grinding. If they continue following this grinder-route, hello people, wake up, a well known competitor called World of Warcraft features grind, too, but has *better* grind.

PvP also does not get much love - sorry, constantly balancing skills is not a major addition or the fantastic rejuvenation of PvP. Originally this was meant to be a PvP game, but it does not seem to be the factor that makes people keep playing GW.

They said they wanted to do their own "thing" in an interview (Jeff Strain, iirc). But actually they do not seem to know what their own "thing" is. Because right now they are re-inventing the standard MMO... doh.

@Symeon: If levels do not matter, they could scrap the whole buddy-system to buff people in your party to your level and remove levels completely, or let all people start out with max level already. Would also save them to make tons of great looking but later useless starter areas they had to design for every chapter

Fril Estelin · Dec 16, 2007, 10:56 AM // 10:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

to get the max rank KOABD

Wrong point of reference here: I seriously doubt that this is what most GW players want, this is what grinders want and this is why so few people are attempting to max KOABD.

As for the "reinventing the stand MMO", I think it's a fail of global vision of MMOs. I suspect that GW and Anet is one of the reason why Archlord and RF Online became free (Fury too but it's apparently dying). The simple fact that it is no-monthly-fee reinvents the genre, you no longer need to get addicted to justify the monthly payment! As for titles, NO ONE is forcing you to get them and you can play (as I do) without too much looking at them.

Longasc · Dec 16, 2007, 11:05 AM // 11:05

I think you are mistaken.

The Hall of Monuments is the grind carrot ANet has given us: A lot of stuff you can add to this hall - for yet still not revealed extras in GW2.

And this is all what is left for people to do.

I do not know about your alliance, but in MY alliance, everyone is working on their titles. Even the more casual players. This game has become title-driven.

Magikarp · Dec 16, 2007, 11:05 AM // 11:05

i agree with Vinraith.

i play GWs because of its diversity from other MMOs, and the independance its grown from that. i played WoW, Lineage, EQ, blah blah blah, all grinders, and a waste of time.

Guild Wars is about skill, and its only matter of time before the skill bar will be 50 skills long, full of modded junk so whoever has the most timers and HUD controls, gets the better advantage, and genericallity sets in.

high level cap not mattering? oooooo party buff makes low levels boost in level in no time!.. heres a question? why? if you have 5 people work like hell to get to level 30421 in gws2, why get johnny a free ride? or better yet.. johnny doesnt know anyone in the game, he's new, no one will help him, 80% of gws current community sucks, and being so similar to WoW, will only draw in the uber nerds that love to hate-grind.

maybe we'll have instances or w/e like you guys claim you know about, but as you tell the people fearing the massive change that we know nothing of what the future of GWs2 brings, niether do any of you.

you all only hope that your interpretation is more realistic than ours, and that upon arrival, it'll be the amazing ... whatever.. you want.

imo, GW2 will fail miserably, just like the other 60 MMOS in the last 7 years, if it sticks with this already downward spiraling trend of mundane MMO cloning.... sad too.. i love GW1 how it is.

Redfeather1975 · Dec 16, 2007, 11:10 AM // 11:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

I think you are mistaken.

The Hall of Monuments is the grind carrot ANet has given us: A lot of stuff you can add to this hall - for yet still not revealed extras in GW2.

And this is all what is left for people to do.

I do not know about your alliance, but in MY alliance, everyone is working on their titles. Even the more casual players. This game has become title-driven.

It only becomes title driven if you expect there to always be something to do.
Strain never intended a guild wars campaign to be played exclusively for a long time.
But there seemed to be a lot of people who expected a single game to be played exclusively and also supply a never ending amount of adventure. So grind content was thrown in to satiate as many of them as possible.
If you've finished the campaigns, done every quest, and don't want to PvP. You've finished the game. The grind is there as an option for people who can't walk away.

Edit:By walk away, I meant play something else until new GW content was made.

netniwk · Dec 16, 2007, 11:10 AM // 11:10

I think they said the 8 skill system will stay as it is.
I would help a low level guildy with a level boost(And i think lots of people will).
They said instanced areas will stay.

Redfeather1975 · Dec 16, 2007, 11:17 AM // 11:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by netniwk

I think they said the 8 skill system will stay as it is.
I would help a low level guildy(And i think lots of people will).
They said instanced areas will stay.

That would be cool if they kept it at 8.
I read that skills wont' have complicated descriptions.
Instead they will have nuances that are context sensitive.
Jumping, running, swimming and using a skill will have slightly different effects than standing still and using it.
Strain called it an 'emergent complexity' skill system.

arcanemacabre · Dec 16, 2007, 11:22 AM // 11:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redfeather1975

That would be cool if they kept it at 8.
I read that skills wont' have complicated descriptions.
Instead they will have nuances that are context sensitive.
Jumping, running, swimming and using a skill will have slightly different effects than standing still and using it.
Strain called it an 'emergent complexity' skill system.

Which I am really looking forward to, actually. This could mean fewer skills overall, which is great for strategy and balance in PvP, since it would mean knowing how to use your skills effectively, rather than just slapping together a bar.

I'm thinking that for PvE, it would be cool to be able to unlock different cosmetic effects for the skills as we level, instead of increasing in power. For instance, summons like spirits and minions could have different appearances unlocked, and you could unlock fancier attack animations for the attack skills. Stuff like that.

Lonesamurai · Dec 16, 2007, 12:02 PM // 12:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike O’Brien

I think we have both audiences in the game. When I talk to people who are really hard core role players in Guild Wars, they say “I love the role playing aspects of Guild Wars, but I don’t think many people like to play the PvP aspects you’ve built in”. And then I talk to big PvP fans and they go: “Oh I love Guild Wars, but I’m not sure that anybody plays it as a role playing game.” That’s funny, but that’s also one of the things that obviously didn’t work out too well. We attract both audiences, but they don’t interact a lot. There is no “bridge” that really attracts role players to PvP and vice versa.

That section alone made me chuckle, especially as its 95% completely true, unless those people that do both are in a guild... And Guild interaction is the only way these two crowds intermix

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

I suspect that GW and Anet is one of the reason why EVE became free (Fury too but it's apparently dying).

Since when is EvE free? because i just bought myself my new 90 Day timecard and i want to know why

Fril Estelin · Dec 16, 2007, 12:20 PM // 12:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

Since when is EvE free? because i just bought myself my new 90 Day timecard and i want to know why

Sorry, my bad! I meant Archlord and RF Online. (I wanted so much to play EVE that reading RFO made me think of it) Post modified.

Sirius-NZ · Dec 16, 2007, 12:25 PM // 12:25

The lack of instancing seems to apply to world PvP only, from reading the game. There's no reason to do so in PvE, nor have they said anything about doing that. In fact that's one of the things GW1 specifically tried to address, and there's no reason it's magically going to stop being an issue in GW2.